Cinevo Podcast - Brandon C. Thomas

Take a look at our convo with Brandon Thomas, who has gone from viral content creator to successful feature film director. He shares his journey and the challenges he faced along the way, as well as his experiences on the festival circuit and the world of financing.

Cinevo Host:
We are live once again for a fantastic CVO conversations. Today. We are gonna have a great guest with Brandon Thomas joining us. And thank you to all of our listening audience, either listening live on clubhouse. Hey,

Brandon Thomas: Check, mic check.

Cinevo Host: Brandon’s mic is good.

Brandon Thomas: Mic check, mic Check. Alrighty.

Cinevo Host: Send out a few invites just in case anyone feels like jumping in. We got some listeners on our Discord channel as well. We’ve got a great, great guest today. I’m super excited to talk to Brandon Thomas about his journey from viral sensation to feature film director. First of course, I do want to make sure that everyone in our listening audience knows all about our grant contest for 2023. This is a really great opportunity for any independent creator, any student creator. We really value our contribution to the independent filmmaker community. And to that end, we are doing $20,000 in grant applications, uh, across five projects. So one will be an $8,000 grand prize open to anyone. One will be a $3,000 grant for a student non-fiction project, a $3,000 grant for a professional non-fiction project, and then a $3,000 grant for a fiction project for student exclusive and for, uh, professional or student as well.

So all in all, $20,000 in rental grants that we will be giving out. And we want to, uh, make sure that you are aware of the process. So you can visit our website at There’s a link directly on the homepage to get all the information about that, to send us your, uh, your link to your short film. We’re taking submissions between now and July 1st, and we will be announcing our finalists later on in the year with an open house to come, uh, around November. So stay tuned for more information on all of that. But right now, let’s get to the man of the hour, Mr. Brandon Thomas. Welcome. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Brandon Thomas: Yeah, thanks man. I’m happy to be here.

Cinevo Host: So I guess yours and my journey goes back a little bit, uh, before even now. We met at, uh, when I was working with a script consultancy team called Open Gate Entertainment, where we were looking out to, uh, reach new creators. But tell us about your journey even before that started with, uh the 1 million views or 2 million views on a couple of major videos. Let’s talk about that.

Brandon Thomas: Yeah, it was a couple of videos that I did. So before I even got a chance to meet you and the team you was with back then. I’ve been doing a lot of viral videos. Um, I was, uh, battle rapping everything, and that was kind of the funny premise, you know, battle rapping trees, I was battle rapping babies, and you know, people really enjoyed it. And I thought it was a lot of fun. And, um, it was getting some views, you know. Um, before that I did a music video, um, with a friend of mine named Kyle Ferguson, uh, a friend of Bahamas. And we did a video, it was the Cups rap remix, and the director of Pitch Perfect saw it and did a remix to the Cup song, and the director Elizabeth Banks shared it. She liked it and loved it, and Cosmopolitan did a magazine. So I started to say, you know what? I really want to do filmmaking and not just be kind of known as the guy who’s battle rapping trees and Christmas gifts , and, you know, and whatever, I could get a hold on. I said, what, what do I want to do? And, um, found, you know, got with you guys and had a television show that I wanted to create and I wanted to do. And, um, ever since then I started to, you know, kind of get out of that realm and consider, you know, really do filmmaking. So…

Cinevo Host: So, you know, the project that that we first connected on was called One Michelin Star, which was a pilot concept for a series. But you’ve also now added feature film director to your resume with a project called Reggie and June. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Brandon Thomas: Yeah. So I haven’t finished the feature film, but it, so first is a, it is a short film now that’s going through the film festival circuit. And the goal is to create it, and it is to create a feature film based off the short film, um, that I’ve done. And Reggie and June is a pretty story that’s pretty close to me. It’s about a father, black father named Reggie who messes up a Red Egg and Ginger Party. It’s a traditional Chinese event that’s important to his Chinese American wife. Um, my wife is a fifth generation Chinese American, and I really wanted to kind of tell our story from an authentic way. Uh, but I, I thought that me and my wife in real life are actually, uh, extremely cordial when we’re talking about raising the, and, uh, differences in culture and things like that.

And so I said, well, for a short, I don’t wanna make the mistake and think that the things we’re talking about is gonna be crazy interesting. So I decided to up the annte, and I had two couples who were, who were really at each other’s throats and really arguing, you know, and really being honest, but you could still feel the love. They weren’t like crazy, but they, they were still so much love for each other. And it talks about that. My actual son, Quentin, is in the film. Um, and, and it went through the film festival circuit. It was great. But now, now I’m in the process of trying to make this a feature film, getting money grants, producers, I’m doing the whole nine. So, um, it’s, it’s an interesting journey.

Cinevo Host: So, you know, 2016, you’ve got, uh, I think you mentioned one of your most popular, uh, projects was called the Idiocy of Mumble Rap.

Brandon Thomas: Oh my gosh.

Cinevo Host: 25 million views! Can can you talk a little bit about how do you, how do you make that transition? I mean, you know, you and I worked in that script consultancy team, uh, together, and there were a couple of other elements like that along the way. But as far as, you know, landing those, when you have those first financing conversations, uh, or when you have those first festival entrants, how, what was the journey like in terms of sort of redefining yourself as a creator?

Cinevo Host: Yeah, so it, it’s, it’s extremely hard and I, I more so mentally than actually doing the work because you get a really quick dopamine fix when, you know, when I did that video, I was really expressing my views on hip hop at the time. And, you know, when you get those views, you know, you really get excited. You see people of your content, you see people agreeing, you see people disagreeing with you, and it starts conversations. And you’re, and it gives this, this false feeling that you have made it to a place that’s not real. Um, when you, when you kind of get into this influencer space, you see a video gets 25 million views and it gets millions of views, and your followers go up and you think that you’re in a place that you’re actually not, you know? And so you have to hold back from one putting out content like that and going a different route and saying, if I want to be a filmmaker and be known for that, I have to put content out in a different way.

So the journey going through the film festival circuit is, is not as, uh, filled with so much dopamine because you have to wait for so long, right. You have to wait, you know, you, you, you submit to a project, you know, if I’m submitting the Cinequest or I’m submitting to the Martha’s Vineyard, African American Film Festival, both film festivals I went to, which are great. Um, you wait a couple of months, you don’t, you don’t get that fix, right, that you’ve got accepted. So it’s a lot of patience. Um, but the reward, uh, for going through the film festival circuit, creating a film, getting a crew together, meeting new people, um, for one, saying you’ve created a short film is also an accomplishment that more filmmakers should understand and realize that, you know, just don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t look at that and say, oh, I haven’t made a feature. And it’s like, no. Like, you’ve created something that takes a lot of people to believe in you and say, yeah. So the journey from going through that route, through the film festival circuit, acting, auditioning, and creating my own narratives is, is much more, it’s much harder than creating a quick two minute video for YouTube and getting a hundred thousand views and being happy, but your life kind of, nothing really has changed

Cinevo Host: So you’ve kind of made the rounds, you mentioned Cinequest, the Martha’s Vineyard Festival. Um, what, what do you, do you see these as kind of all being very lateral events? Or is, is the culture of each festival a a little bit different? And how should you know if I, if I’m my a first time independent creator, I’ve got a short film in the can, how do I approach the festival circuit?

Brandon Thomas: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So the, the easy way, first of all, is always, you know, is a, is a place that everyone, you know, most people know about. It’s create your account, put your headshot, get your things on there, and get your information bio, and you submit from there. But when it comes to film festivals, you know, not just willy-nilly submitting just because it’s a film festival, uh, reach out to programmers, especially when you have things in common with them. You know, especially if you may be from the same place, let’s just say you meet some in different areas, you know, like for example, when I submitted through Cinequest, I got a chance to, uh, I, I knew, uh, one of the people who have worked there a year previously, and I told him I had this short film coming out.

He says, whoa, let’s, let’s get in there and let’s talk and let’s see what we can do to help you get there. And then it helped me to kind of, for other people, other people in the program team to hear it, to actually give it a chance, because thousands of people submit to film festivals. And so they were able to actually give it a true watch, and they would say, this is something that we can put into the theaters for people to come see. I would also recommend if you have a film that if it’s, if it’s a cultural related, race related, there’s so many specific films, cater to Asian American films, African American films, even, they’re even getting Native American film. There’s so many things in different diverse and cultural things like that. Um, and then other film festivals are starting to be hip. They’re either creating categories for that or they are continuously, um, finding ways to put different filmmakers like that into, uh, into the film festival pretty much. So, um, it’s been been a crazy journey. It’s really great. But I would definitely tell filmmakers as they go through the film festival circuit, see what you have in common with them. See the things that would actually fit with your film. If it’s horror, horror film festivals. Fantasy film festivals, comedy, all these things help to, to make your film much more successful.

Cinevo Host: Right. Um, so, uh, and if we can talk about this, there’s a particular, uh, financier conversation that you had at one of these kind of a kind of a V.I.P.  Um, I’m curious if you can talk about that a little bit, and if you can tell us a little bit about, you know, what, if somebody were to find themselves in a similar situation, how do you navigate those financing conversations, especially as a first time creator where you can’t necessarily point to a, you know, a successful feature film in the past? How do, do you set yourself apart from maybe the other things they’re considering?

Brandon Thomas: Are, are you referring to the Martha’s Vineyard one that happened there?

Cinevo Host: Or, I’m, I’m referring to a particular mayor of Sacramento.

Brandon Thomas: Oh, Oh man. Oh man. Oh

Cinevo Host: Can we, can we put that name out?

Brandon Thomas: A little bit? Okay. Cause I, I don’t want, I don’t wanna put ’em on.

Cinevo Host: We won’t put ’em on blast, but, but yeah. I don’t want just say thank you, sir.

Brandon Thomas: Yeah. I’ll, I’ll say thank you. And you know, far as what he has done, he doesn’t owe me anything else. But, um, my film, it went through the Martha’s Vineyard, African-American Film Festival. His, the mayor of Sacramento, Kevin Johnson, UHS wife, saw my film there. And she recommended it to him. And he, and he watched the film and then invited me out to his film festival in Sacramento, got to know him, you know, and he was basically like, you know, as you get more funds, let me help you, let me be able to help give some funds for your feature film, Reggie and June. And it was amazing. Cause I’m like, dude, this is a former NBA player, he’s a great guy. He’s humble, he’s nice. It didn’t feel for us, it didn’t feel like anything. It was just like a great guy who, um, just so happens could help me out.

And he, he offered that and said that as he get more money, you know, let, let me help you so we can get this feature film, you know, on the road. So that was a great thing. So big shots out to Kevin Johnson, um, really great guy. Shouts out to Oak Park Black Film Festival, which he invited me out to. And, uh, for filmmakers who may be in those type of situations, the best thing you can do is to one, be genuine and to be, to be yourself. I mean, I knew who he was, but I’m not asking this man for anything, you know, that’s not really, but, you know, my style, unless it was an event where it catered to that, but he invited me out. I’m generally happy just to show my film. And I think when you’re in a situation, like when you’re in a situation like that, I think the best thing is to actually build relationships.

Brandon Thomas: I almost hate the word networking sometimes, because I didn’t necessarily go there to like, network with the goal of, to creating, of filling up my cell phone list with names for the future. Meaning it was really like, I actually want to get to know people. I’m big on relationships. I’m big on people. I really, really, really love people. I want people to feel love. I want people to feel comfortable. You know, I, that’s kind of where I’m at. And so when meeting Kevin, I was just felt he was just a genuine guy. He just happened to love the film. And so I would say be genuine with people. Don’t look towards people of what you can get out of them. Generally just build friendships. And if you two are able to collab, then that’s just the benefit of your friendship. And if you guys know, or guys, men or women don’t end up being friends, that’s life. That’s, that’s okay. You know, and even then, depending on you can be, uh, associates, you’re surprised that people who will help you, then you may we not be, may, we may may not be close, but they’ll say, you know what? I saw your project we met a year ago, and I just happened to talk to so-and-so, you know, can we have a general meeting? Can we speak on that? You, you’d be surprised. So keep things open and, um, I think you’ll have more success that way.

Cinevo Host: Good advice. Yeah. Um, and so also being on set in general, as a, as a director is kind of a new experience for you. Can you talk a little bit about the processes that you have developed, leading actors, uh, and, and kind of coordinating that entire onset experience and, and any advice to new filmmakers in that direction?

Brandon Thomas: Yeah, for sure. The best way to learn something is just to do it. Um, my very first short film was called The Golden Record. We shot it in The Bahamas. And I had a friend, a best friend of mine who directs and he directs music videos and Burger King commercials all throughout The Bahamas. Um, really, really great guy. And I, he basically kind of, you know, kind of showed me the ropes and I was there and we kind of co-directed. And then my second short film, Reggie in June, I kind of led the directing there, but I made sure that I prepped ahead of time. Preparation is so key. I spoke to, um, Nicholas Dorsey, my, uh, DP for the project beforehand. I say, I went, shots looked like this. We went through the shot list, we went through everything. So when we’re on set, it’s kind of autopilot, unless we have to troubleshoot and he kind of knows what.

And he knows what I want. I’ll still look at the, I’ll still look at the screen, I’ll, you know, make sure things are okay. But we have gone and do that prep, so I have to trust him. I have to trust that he’s gonna make my vision look what what it is. And, and he knows what he’s doing. So I put my trust in him after we talked. And then on top of that, I had an acting coach who was my assistant director, Michelle Romeo Claire, who is a director and playwright in her own right. Mostly theater. So this is kind of her first rodeo with, with onscreen. I said, you know what? I want you to be able to be with the actors as well, because I don’t know it all, and I want to have a great performance since I’m acting in it. I want you to help me. So that, that’s, that’s kind of how I approached it. And as things go on, I’ll get better and better, but I’m always gonna rely on the people who’s close to me.

Cinevo Host: Fantastic. Yeah. What, what advice would you give to the direct, uh, director of photography out there who is engaging with a, a first or second time director? You know, what, what are the elements that they can do or explain, um, that can really, really help you in those moments on set when you’re kind of a, in that journeyman stage?

Brandon Thomas: Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. That’s, that’s a really good question. I, I would definitely say the simple, regular human things are a top priority. Please be kind , because you know, people, you were where they were at one point. Um, and being kind and humble, not arrogant, being like, well, you don’t know this, you know, it’s like, like, well that’s, that’s why I’m here. I want to ask you, I want you to help me. You know? And no matter what’s at stake, if it’s the film, you know, you guys are doing a film and they don’t know if they like, help them be with them, be with them on this journey, you never know. There’s a saying, they say in Hollywood, they say, be, be kind to everyone that, that intern, that assistant could be the executive that yous true need to speak to in a couple years.

Cinevo Host: I’ve been here long enough to, to see it happen.

Brandon Thomas: Yeah. You know, so it’s like, you never know where people are going are going to be in life, this, you know, so be kind for one. And then as they’re on this journey, um, with them, if they are humble as well, show them the ropes  of, of what it takes and of what to do. And after that experience, they’re only gonna be better cuz they’re gonna remember everything that happened. Right. And, um, my friend Kyle, when he was with me on the journey, he simply guided me, uh, through it and he kind of let me do my thing. You know, very gorilla-style filmmaking was my first one, you know, we just want to get it done. And, um, and that, yeah, that’s probably what I would recommend.

Cinevo Host: So this has been an interesting time period to be taking this journey. Starting in 2016 when you were mostly doing viral video. Obviously between 2016 and 2023, there has been a lot of social conversation, uh, and, and things like that. Reggie and June, like you mentioned, really leans into those types of conversations about race dynamics and things like that. One Michelin Star kind of deals with it as a subtext. Have you seen any sort of win changes in the festival circuit? Or is it, is it easier, is it more challenging to have these conversations? Or are audiences for these conversations in multiple places or in particular places? If I’m a writer who is kind of trying to take that same journey where my script deals with these types of themes, any particular advice or guidance for, for somebody in that position?

Cinevo Host: Yeah. Um, the best thing to do it, well, one, the festival circuit, they’re definitely more open than ever before than I have seen. Even just from seeing the films that have been selected, they’re definitely more open and people are listening a little more and they’re considering other directors and people of color, um, to have their stories told. Uh, but I would also recommend for filmmakers to, in Reggie and June, it has the potential throughout the whole thing to be extremely tense. But for a brief moment, I give the audiences, uh, I give the audience just a small break in levity with the father of Reggie where he kind of, you know, teases Reggie and makes fun of him, of, you know, of what’s with what’s happening. And I would say that if you’re talking about these tense things, especially, um, you never know who’s in the audience, I would definitely say lighten the mood like a tinge.

Like a tinge. Unless it’s that type of film. You know, I, I don’t wanna tell you how to, how to create your film, right. But it’s my recommendation because it’s not a com. My film is far from a comedy, it’s a drama, but there’s a way of doing a funny moment in the way that just, that just eases people up a little bit because you want people to actually listen. You actually want people to hear your point of view, hear your perspective. And so, um, with me talking about, um, what it’s like to be black in America and then, uh, the actress Grace Chan, she plays June. She talks about what it means to her to be Chinese American. You know, both of those stories I think are really unique. I love that. The fact they can come together and talk about those things. And, um, I’m excited to do some, do it some more with that.

Cinevo Host: And you’ve got one other project that you’re working on right now that deals with substance abuse and addiction, uh, Lunge. Yeah. Can you, can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah,

Brandon Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. So Lunge is definitely in the, I won’t wanna say, back burner. But it’s more like I have One Michelin Star and Reggie and June the featured more so priority, um, but Lunge, um, definitely dealing with the, it’s about an Olympic star who really, you know, really gets a lot of his, uh, strength from, you know, his addiction. You know, I don’t wanna give too much away. 

Cinevo Host: Performance enhancing drugs.

Brandon Thomas: So yeah. So sorta, and, and it, well I’ll say it’s definitely illegal in the Olympics. You know, I’m, I’m trying not to give the story too much away over here, but it definitely helps him. But you see his journey from getting off of that and showing that he’s actually great without it. You know, he’s, he’s simply, you know, great without it. And then, you know, my research looking for different fencers and, um, and how to show this guy’s skill level and who he is has been really, really, really fun. It deals with family, it deals with, uh, it obviously is gonna deal with the sport of fencing. I want to show the sport of fencing in such a cool, cool way. Um, that’s gonna be amazing. And, um, I’m really taking a lot of inspiration, uh, from the television show, Euphoria. You know, I love how they do cinematography there. Very dream-like very, uh, surreal. You know, type of shots. So yeah. I hope people will really like that soon as I get to it.

Cinevo Host: Fencing obviously a very fast paced sport. Is, are you looking at ideas of like, you know, time, slow down, time-lapse type photography and things like that to execute on some of those scenes?

Brandon Thomas: Oh, oh, you know, it, you know it okay. You know it. Yeah. Definitely gonna have to get some slow motion there. It’s gonna be unnecessarily epic . Okay. In a lot of the, in a lot of the scenes. Um, I’m very big on closeups. That’s definitely one of my styles. I learned that from, um, Reid Murano, and she’s one of my favorite cinematographers and directors. And Reid Morano was on the, um, she did episodes on The Handmaids Tale. And learning from her, just watching her, it really dictated how I shoot film and, and really getting up close and personal with the protagonist and the antagonist and not feeling like the antagonist isn’t a person. Like, no, they deserve their shine too, because they are a human that you, we may happen to disagree with, but they think they’re in the right. And in a sense, you may find some things, you may agree with an antagonist depending on who it is.

Cinevo Host: If it’s a good antagonist, I think that that’s very true. At, at least for me, when I, when I watch a, a superhero movie for sure. I more often than not find myself, uh, putting myself in the role of, of the, of the heavy of the bad guy. Just, I don’t know, it seems more fun or more relatable. I, I don’t know. Uh, but that’s definitely, definitely true, I think. Yeah. Um, so you, you’ve done a few, uh, more film festival scenes South by Southwest Tribeca. Do you have any thoughts as far as, you know, strategic approach for creators? Is it good to try and lock in a, a premiere of your film at a, at a specific spot? Is it better to just try and get out into as many venues as you can? What do you, you know, when, when you’re at that stage, how do you approach, you know, circulating your release?

Brandon Thomas: Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah. And it’s funny, I I even though I didn’t get into those specific film festivals, you said, but submitting to those are important. You gotta shoot your big shots like South by Southwest Tribecca, you know, things like that. Um, but the Academy World qualifying festivals I did get into, it’s extremely, extremely, extremely, extremely helpful with that. And definitely as you’re looking for your festival and where you should go, I tell people all the time, you go where you’re wanted, go where you are, you know, go where you’re wanted. Don’t feel uppity or more or better than a festival because they’re showing you an audience, they’re giving you an audience free people are watching your film. You never know, um, who’s there. So I would say once again, not like willynilly share it to whoever, but it’s definitely, it’s definitely strategic in the sense of where do you want to be?

Like, I’m from Maryland, you know, I want to, I wanna shoot, I wanna a film festival in Maryland cuz I have a lot of friends and family who live in Maryland, so it’ll be really nice if I can pack out the theater and that film festival will remember you and they know other programmers and they may recommend you to another film festival. Like this one filmmaker, he got like, he got like 70 people in the audience. You know, so it’s good to be strategic in that way and to save your asks for your family. If you’re in California, you got, you got into three film festivals in Cali, maybe maybe invite them to one, right. So they can pack that out and then you could tell ’em about the other ones. But the most important one, pa have ’em packed that out, get into the San Francisco International Film Festival or something like that and you live in the SF then wait, and then tell about that and pack that thing out so programmers remember you and they’ll, you know, that’s another strategy.

Cinevo Host: You know, and the reason you’re joining us in LA this week, you’ve actually taken another step in, in your career with a fantastic team at Macro Studios. Uh, as much as you can mention, what’s it been like, uh, having that work experience with them? And I’m kind of curious, um, how do you, you know, follow through with, with your work with that team while at the same time, you know, respectfully introducing your projects and trying to continue those networking approaches as you, as you continue to elevate your own work, uh, as well.

Brandon Thomas: Yeah, so I mean, I have the opportunity, you know, maybe in a few weeks or months to possibly pitch something, but I, I generally just love Macro so much. So I am literally just a kid in a candy store. I’m just happy to be there. I’m literally just smiling and just walking around, you know, doing some, you know, I’m doing film coverage right now for them. You know, I’m just getting in the door and, um, really, really great people really getting to know and meet some of the executives even, you know, one of the finance guys a great guy and everyone points to him and says, you know, he’s, he’s the one who make, keeps this place afloat because you need money, right. You know, to be able to make these projects and, and budgeting and you know, all these, all these different types of things. But it’s been really cool, um, being there. So every week, you know, I travel from the Bay and come to LA to be able to work there a few days and come back and, um, we’ll see how the relationship goes.

Cinevo Host: Well they’re a fantastic team. Judas in the Black Messiah was one of my favorite films when it came out. I think that is just so incredibly poignant and at least, you know, for somebody who was born in 1986, it it seems like it’s pretty accurate. I would have to ask somebody a few years older than me if that’s really the case. But yeah, for me it was very, very impactful. Uh, so yeah, I mean that’s, that’s the run of it. You can check out Brandon’s social media handles and that’s how it be doe. D-o-e. Where else can we find your work right now, Brandon?

Brandon Thomas: Yeah, so at the moment everything is so much under wraps, but Reggie and June, the short film will be public this year. We’ll be public this year, so I have to find a date for that soon. But I want to be able to make it pub, make it, you know, out to the public cuz it’s been exclusively for film festivals and programmers that, you know, they put their password to be able to check it out and watch it. But very soon I would love to share Reggie and June with everyone and I’ll put it on different platforms and I’ll submit it out. Um, but as of right now, I if you’re want a good laugh, you wanna check out my YouTube channel, the things I’ve did in the past, you can go to my YouTube. It’s the same thing. That’s how it B-D-O-E or B dash d-o-e um, pretty much. But please be on a lookout and please if you can, if you follow me, uh, if you’re on Instagram, shoot, gimme a follow as I’m gonna be putting out more projects and uh, hopefully you’ll enjoy ’em.

Cinevo Host: And if, uh, if you’re interested in, in taking part in financing, I guess have your people call Kevin Johnson’s people or reach out to Brandon directly.

Brandon Thomas: Yeah, call me. Yeah, please gimme a call. I will happily, happily accept anything.

Cinevo Host: Wonderful. Well, well Brandon, we are so pleased to have you as part of the Cinevo community. Uh, we’re super excited to see the trajectory of your career. Thank you brother. Clearly it’s going in a great direction. So thank you for joining us today to all of our listeners, again, be sure to check out our social media,, and uh, uh, check out our social on Instagram and TikTok as well. Our grant contest is open until July 1st to any filmmaker in the continental United States. We wanna see what you create as well. Thank you so much to everyone for joining us today and we will see you next time.

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