Cinevo sits down with Director of Photography Jennifer Hook to discuss her recent projects, challenges of emerging female filmmakers, and working in post-covid Hollywood.
Cinevo Host:
My name is Hank. I’m the client consultant with SVO in Culver City, a fantastic equipment and lens rental facility. And one of our goals going into the new year is to create some more opportunity for conversation and exposure with some of our fantastic, DP clients, our producer clients, to talk about their projects and help them generate some exposure. We have a really amazing first guest. I’m here with Jennifer Hook from Practical Magic. She’s been working on a really amazing documentary covering Paleolithic Era Cave symbology. We’re gonna jump all into the information on that in just a little bit here. But first, Jennifer, can you tell us a little bit about your experience arriving to this point in your career? You mentioned that you were a graduate of UNC Wilmington, right. What was that like?
Jennifer Hook:
Uh, so yeah, I majored in film studies at UNC Wilmington, North Carolina. Um, stuck around Wilmington for about a year, trying to find film work out there, but didn’t have any luck. So I got an internship out here in Los Angeles at a casting company, which didn’t really do a lot to further my career. So then I got a job at Yogurtland that also didn’t do much for my career. Uh, but then I got a job at Film Tools, and through that I was able to meet tons of people who were actively working in the industry, and some of them were looking for an AC or a gaffer, and I didn’t necessarily know a lot about how to pull focus or how to set up a diva light, but they kind of brought me onto these smaller productions and taught me. And, you know, from there I just kept networking and getting more jobs.
Cinevo Host:
Yeah. Building it out one step at a time. You mentioned that you did a little bit of work on One Tree Hill as well, back in the day.
Jennifer Hook:
Uh, yeah, you could say that. I was an extra on One Tree Hill, and while I, you know, I didn’t get to get any camera experience, I did get to watch the crew and it actually was really cool and informative, and it was neat to be able to see a more high budget production and kind of just see how, how all the things worked behind the scenes.
Cinevo Host:
You had mentioned as well, before going into a, the natural documentary field, you’re a rock climber by passion, so yeah. You’re no stranger. You’ve been no stranger to the outdoors before this, I guess.
Jennifer Hook:
Yeah, I always said that if I could combine outdoor adventure with filmmaking, that would just, that’d be like my dream career. So I was really excited to finally have the opportunity to work on this documentary that kind of put me out in the field in adventurous situations.
Cinevo Host:
Were you a passionate spelunker as well, or was this a first time for a lot of your cave exploration?
Jennifer Hook:
Very much so. A first time. And it’s so weird because now I’ve been shooting in caves for three months and it’s just like, it’s like a, another Monday. And I think back to before I started this and I was freaking out, I was like, how do you, how do you shoot in a cave? What do we do for lights? How do we get enough lights in there? How do we power the lights? What, what do we, where do we put our stuff on the ground? Like, and it’s dark everywhere. And, um, so I actually joined a caving society out here. It’s called the SoCal Gratto and picked some people’s brains there. And I actually went caving with them a couple of times. And then, uh, I took my crew for the documentary. We went shooting, just made up some random storyline, and we shot in a mine out here.
Cinevo Host:
Really cool. Very cool. So yeah, we’re, we’re gonna jump into all of those technical questions about, you know, the lighting and how you, you manage an operation inside of this type of environment. But first, let’s talk a little bit about the content. And I know we’re being a little cautious as to what specifically we jump into because you are still doing principle photography. You’re gonna be doing some more shooting in the spring, is that right?
Jennifer Hook: That’s correct.
Cinevo Host: Awesome. But, uh, what we can talk about, we’re examining symbology and cave paintings. You’re working with scientists that have seen some consistencies in non figurative painting, which means that these are not real objects. They are symbolic objects of some design and we’re seeing similarities throughout them. So what can you mention as far as the, the fundamental topics that the scientists in this show are covering?
Jennifer Hook:
We’re, we’re looking at specifically Paleolithic Art, which means that it has to be either 16,000 years or older. We’re looking at it all over Europe. We went to Wales, we went to Italy, Spain, France, and Portugal. Um, and just kind of trying to look at why we’re seeing the same symbols repeated at different sites at across like 30,000 years of time. But, uh, it’s not aliens.
Cinevo Host:
It’s definitely not aliens. Just you’re gonna clarify that. Yeah. Now, uh, you had mentioned that even in the moments where you’re on location, you are having scientists actively debating with one another. How does that affect your, you know, as you’re there essentially writing out some dialogue, some script for this, as you’re discovering these things and you’re dealing with conflicting scientific opinions, how do you address all of that inside of the scope of the story that you’re building out?
Jennifer Hook:
I mean, I think that’s what we’re looking for, cuz it, it makes it that much more interesting to have two scientists just kind of standing there looking at something, nodding their heads and agreeing with each other, um, is not very interesting or compelling. But to actually get to watch a debate and maybe you end up picking aside yourself and kind of, um, learn something new, be convinced of something new. I think those moments when we got to see those disagreements happen were actually some of the best moments.
Cinevo Host:
I can, I can definitely see that. It definitely gives life to the project. Uh, so you have all these scientific minds on set, in some cases you’re having to train them to be actors to a degree. Yes. Inside of this, what is, what is that like sort of guiding them through a, a production process when they’re coming at it from a more academic mindset, but you’re ultimately making a show?
Jennifer Hook:
Uh, it was really only the most challenging for the first couple of weeks because, you know, sometimes we wanted to get a hero shot with a scientist and we’d say, okay, stand up here on this hill, and kind of just like, look out at the horizon and think about what you might discover today. And they’re like, excuse me, what ? They’re like, you want me to look just like, look, I don’t ever, I don’t just go look around. So then they would, they’d be like, okay, I’ll do it. And they’d go stand up there and they’d look at me and be like, like this. I’d say, yes, but don’t talk . Um, but you know, that was only for the first couple of weeks and we all kind of got the hang of working together and they also developed the ability to ignore the camera, you know, after a while they, and it was, it was also easier when we were in the caves and looking at things cuz they would get so excited in there. I’m looking at it, I’m like, I don’t see anything. I see like, just like some, some black marks on a wall and they’re like, oh my gosh, this is the first time I’ve seen this. This is amazing. This is, you know, 30,000 years old. And they just get so excited. So the cameras are just no longer even a factor to them, right?
Cinevo Host:
Right. It’s very easy for them to kind of forget the camera because this is their, their life’s work that’s really being inflected, right? So three months over 40 different sites in Iberia, in Italy, in the British Islands. You’ve got your production crew, you’ve got your scientists, you’ve also got the Guardians, which was a really exciting thing to talk about. These are landowners or museum curators who are focused on the preservation of these deeply historical sites. Um, what was it like working with them? What were some of the challenges that, that you, you know, that you worked together to overcome and, and have the best production while obviously still maintaining these incredibly important environments?
Jennifer Hook:
It was something different working with each cave guardian because they were all at a different level of caution with us. Um, but usually once we did start working with them and they could see that we were being respectful of the site and we weren’t, you know, breaking stac mites and knocking things over. They would kind of relax and then they’d actually get excited. They’d say, oh wait, come over here. Look at, look at this, this thing on this wall, film this. Um, so, you know, I think we, we were able to form some really good relationships that’ll hopefully lead to access to more caves for us next year as well.
Cinevo Host:
Absolutely. I’m sure that they will consider the respect when they’re considering the next time out. Uh, so you had some pretty specific restrictions, especially with regards to lighting. You were not able to use hot lights inside because it could have deteriorated the cave walls, let alone the paintings on the walls. How did you overcome that? What were some of your, uh, experiences getting in and out of location in, in these environments that were pretty unexpected at times?
Jennifer Hook:
Well, we really needed things to be lightweight, um, because we had a limited number of people carrying all this gear, including our camera bags. We exclusively used Aputure lights on this production. We had MCs, which are just the very small rectangular ones. And then we had the T2c’s, which when we were on set, we called them Light Saber because that was a lot easier for, um, the scientists to remember than T2c’s . They’d be like, oh, hand me a light saber. Uh, cuz we also let the scientists use our lights to get up and get better looks at what they were looking at and some of the scientists had their own lights, which were LED and those a lot of times, they would flicker, so we would give them our Aputure lights. We also had the 60X, the 200X, and we would kind of get into places deeper into the cave, um, go behind some kind of formation and shoot the light back towards wherever the camera was gonna be to get these kind of silhouetted and backlit still act mites and still act tights and get some really, I mean, caves are really a lot of fun to light and it’s always different.
But also for us, you know, it was very running gun, so we had to get in there, throw up the lights really fast and just shoot. But luckily the more caves we went in, the more that we learned just kind of naturally where was the best place to put a light.
Cinevo Host:
Yeah. Even though every cave has its own nuances, eventually you’re gonna approach some techniques to get that same epic scale shot that you wanted in each cave. Can you talk a little bit about, as far as you know, production time, there’s always, you know, daily parameters. You have only a certain number of hours as far as logistically getting things in and out and back to the base camps that you set up. And then we can talk a little bit about those base camps setups as well.
Jennifer Hook:
For the locations we were anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour and a half, or even occasionally two hours from where we were shooting. So at the start of the day, we would have that travel time and then we might arrive to the, to the parking for the cave. And it might be that we could literally park right at the entrance to the cave, or it might be that we had to park and have a 30 minute hike up to the site. We had to be really careful about how heavy our bags were and how many people we had to carry everything. Um,
Cinevo Host:
You had mentioned that Aputure had really been a valuable resource to you guys as well, uh, providing a couple of pieces of gear. Yeah. And also just being a great option for battery powered sources because obviously running generators and cable wasn’t really an option.
Jennifer Hook:
Yeah, absolutely. We basically had eight V-mount batteries that we were using with the 200Xs and the 60Xs, and that was generally enough to keep us going for the whole day, which, uh, when it came down to it, our day might be like inside of the cave, anywhere from two hours to six hours. Occasionally, we might have hit eight hours, but shooting in a cave is exhausting. So I was partial to the more like three hour kind of days.
Cinevo Host:
Let’s talk loss and damage for a little bit. You had mentioned that you had a, a couple of, uh, mishaps, but overall it seemed like things went pretty well for your production in terms of maintaining gear. I mean, you’re dealing with some very wet environments, so, you know, how do you approach those things in terms of your preparation and, and also like when you’re on set, just maintaining gear throughout that?
Jennifer Hook:
I’m actually really impressed at how well we maintained our gear and I think, you know, one of the things was just trying to keep up with organization, which was a huge challenge, but as long as we were taking all of the items when we were done shooting at the end of the day, making sure everything was dry and packed back the way that it should be, um, packed in a way that it’s not gonna get jostled around and messed up. And then also just kind of using that opportunity to inventory and make sure that we still have everything that we didn’t leave something behind, which occasionally we might have left something behind in a cave. Um, we, we did pretty well. We had, you know, we had a gimbal that started failing partway through. I had a easy rig that the line snapped on it, but that was a storage problem, not a usage problem. So, other than that, just, you know, very small normal things. Oh, we broke a couple of HDMI cables, but of course we had numerous backups because that’s just to be expected. And we made sure that with the FX3 and the Ninja where the HDMI cable was plugging in, we had the little protectors. So that way if anything breaks, it’s the cable and it’s not the, the port on the camera or on the Ninja.
Cinevo Host:
Right. Now at your base camps, you were able to utilize the starlink system for uploading a lot of your footage and things like that. Can you talk a little bit about using that process because it’s a fairly new tool for filmmakers but also just some general techniques for, you know, when you’re building up and breaking down these base camps at multiple locations, just good practices for leading a team in that.
Jennifer Hook:
The starlink was pretty impressive. We were out somewhere in the middle of nowhere on the Cliffs of Wales and I FaceTimed my mom and it was just like crystal clear. So that was really cool. Um, for the base camp, you know, we had a, we generally I think gave them two days, although I think they were able to get it pretty much done in one day once they had everything down. Um, setting up the geodesic dome, setting up the bell tents and the mess tents. Really, I mean, I wasn’t super involved with that part. I think we had a good production team that just was, you know, making sure those things were getting done.
Cinevo Host:
And, and what did you call it again? A geo…?
Jennifer Hook:
Geodesic dome, which it’s, uh, it’s a dome, but it’s all triangles. And the fun thing that we learned that I think we should have known before, someone should have known beforehand but turns out the acoustics in a dome are terrible. And we went in there the first day and you stand in the middle and you hear your voice bouncing back at you from a hundred different directions. It’s very weird and terrible. And we had to pretty much soundproof the whole entire thing. So that was, that was part of the learning process the first time they set up the base camp. But again, once we figured those things out. It all kind of fell into place.
Cinevo Host:
It sounds like such a unique type of project where you really are, it’s, it’s not fully scripted as you’re going through. You have scientists at the end of every day actively arguing, sometimes disagreeing but collectively, trying to figure out what it is that they saw and how are you gonna structure your story through that. Um, can you, can you talk a little bit about what that process was like?
Jennifer Hook:
I mean, it’s barely scripted. It’s really like we went there knowing that we have this concept of wanting to look at these symbols that we’re seeing across time and space. But, um, beyond that, a lot of it’s just putting the scientists together in these locations and letting them have conversations. And sometimes you might see, or the director might see kind of an opening for a conversation and say like, oh, uh, I tour, will you, will you mention this one thing? And he would, he would comment on that and it would spark a new conversation with them. But as far as scripting, uh, so far there’s been very little of that. Right.
Cinevo Host:
Uh, and you also found yourself working essentially as a second unit ad in a lot of cases because you could not get, you know, the full crew down into some of these environments. Mm-hmm. , what was it like in those moments where you’re, I mean, are you building out shot lists or, or conceptualizations down there and, and how did you approach those challenges?
Jennifer Hook:
Um, for shot lists, a bit of both. We would definitely have a plan going in like a, a checklist of certain shots that we wanna get, um, to kind of set the, the look of the show. We know that we want this kind of wide establishing epic shot maybe with a slow push in. Like, we want everything to be moving. Um, we wanted a lot of, like, we wanted to keep everything dynamic. And so we had that checklist, but then once we got down there, um, and we would also, we would know ahead of time, okay, we were here to look at this sign and this sign and to talk about these horses over here. Um, so part of my job might actually be to say, okay, everybody, let’s get these three scientists. The you three stand right here in front of this sign, now talk.
Jennifer Hook:
And we would shoot them for like 15 minutes and then they’d be ready to keep going and going and going and going. At some point I’d have to cut them off because we have to go shoot the next thing and we only have, you know, two hours in this cave or something like that. So, um, as long as we kind of made that game plan and then did our best to stick to it, which didn’t always happen because scientists can get very excited about things and they’ll just look over and be like, guys, there’s a, there’s a dot on the wall over here. And they just like go off and like, and I don’t necessarily try to stop them because I wanna capture that authentic excitement. So sometimes we went a little off the rails, but sometimes that was a good thing.
Cinevo Host:
Awesome. Well, it sounds like an amazing project. Really excited to, to see where it goes after you complete the next round of photography. Um, I want to talk a little bit about some more of your personal work before we do though, any general advice for, uh, young filmmakers who are doing documentary projects, especially in, you know, si extreme or semi extreme environments. Just general advice to anybody getting ready to maybe attempt something of this nature.
Jennifer Hook:
I guess my advice for something specific like this would be to keep your gear package small and simple. Make sure you have, you know exactly what you need and spares of things that might break, but don’t make your bag too heavy. Like if you’re carrying a 30 pound bag around everywhere you go and you’re also operating a camera, you’re gonna end up like destroying your back. Mm-hmm. . Um, but also the, if, if we’re talking about new filmmakers just starting out, I always think one of the best things you can do is find yourself a mentor. And if there’s someone else who’s kind of shooting similar content to what you’re shooting, um, that you can talk to, that you can maybe even go shadow somewhere and see how, see how they work and see how, you know, you can support each other. Um, that’s always hugely helpful.
Cinevo Host:
Right, right. Absolutely. Uh, great. So beyond this, you’ve got some really, really great experiences. You’ve got some content that our listeners can check out right now a show you did or a film project called Birdie, which is available on Pure Flicks. You can find that online. They do have a free trial service available. Uh, this is a, a kind of a small town story where you really focused in on, on color as a storytelling device. Can you talk a little bit more about your DP experience on that one?
Jennifer Hook:
Yeah. Um, we, we did focus on color, both in the pallets that we used on screen and then also, uh, for the color in post. Um, so on screen we, you know, each character had their own color and the way that the colors described their story. Um, the main character, Luke, he started off, um, in a gray wardrobe and slowly transitioned into light blue and then into dark blue, um, to show how his character was growing. And we were also able to really use that, um, with some of the scenes such as we had a hospital scene with him and we made sure he had blue bedsheets and he had a blue gown. And then we even painted the hospital room blue. Um, and the hospital liked it so much they left it that way , um, cuz it was like beige before. Um, so, but then in post we, we were lucky to be able to really take some time and drill down into the look.
Jennifer Hook:
We wanted to try to emulate the movie Fences. Um, Fences was shot on Kodak Vision 3, um, 5203 and 7, and then for, and that was for outside, and then inside it was 52, 13 and 17. So we found actual, um, color profiles for that stock and applied that and kind of worked from that as a base. And then we also applied, uh, subtle Grain. Um, we didn’t want it to be too overpowering, so we, uh, we adjusted the intensity of that. But overall, I’m just really pleased with how the finished product look. I think it, it’s got a really finished polished look and also just like a very warm, comfortable, um, timeless look.
Cinevo Host:
I agree. It’s that that warm death that it kind of reminded me of Bones and all is a, is a, they kind of had that similar approach to like warm tones to give that small town vibe. It was a really enjoyable watch. Uh, and then you have Turnover on Amazon Prime. Can you tell us a little bit about that project?
Jennifer Hook:
Uh, turnover was a feature I shot a few years back, I wanna say maybe 2018 or so. Um, and that one we shot primarily in one location in Long Beach. It’s about, um, this guy that owns a restaurant and the turnover is a bit of a play on a word, uh, turnover of his employees, but also turnover like an apple turnover. Mm-hmm. . Um, so it’s about the new quirky employees he acquires at that restaurant and kind of, um, how he grows and changes as a person thanks to those new people in his life.
Cinevo Host:
Very cool. Very cool. And you have another narrative project that you’re working on right now mm-hmm. , something very personal to you, uh, dealing with the role of caregivers and patients of epilepsy, and kind of their struggles in modern society within the medical structure in America. Uh, can you talk a little bit, uh, about that project?
Jennifer Hook:
Yep. Um, this is a project I, well I wrote it because my nephew has epilepsy and, um, it’s been really hard. It’s been hard on my sister, it’s been hard on my mother and, uh, writing about it kind of was cathartic for me and I started off writing about it just to sort of get it out and you’d get it out basically. But, um, at one point I had 16 pages, this nice little concise short story, but I was like, this doesn’t convey anywhere close to half the things that I’m trying to kind of tell people about epilepsy. And then it became 30 pages and then it kept growing and I had it rewritten and now it’s 140 pages, which is too long. You could use some cuts, but, um, you know, it’s hard to, hard to figure out how to cut something from your own script. So it’s, it’s something though that I feel like I could take either the 16 or the 30 page and I could potentially with, with the right funding and opportunities, create that short story and put it in festivals and maybe obtain funding for the feature version.
Cinevo Host:
It, it sounds like a great project. It sounds like a story that is undertold and mm-hmm. could be well served to be told. You know, I’m sure every, almost everyone in America probably has their own story about dealing with our medical situations.
Jennifer Hook:
One in 26 people in America are affected by epilepsy. Um, and yeah, there’s basically no movies about it. Yeah. I think there’s one short film out there, um, that was made not too long ago and maybe a couple of things that are in the works, but really there’s nothing that’s just exclusively about epilepsy. There’s also, you know, there’s the ones where maybe somebody has a neurological disorder that causes seizures, but it’s still not the primary focus of the movie.
Cinevo Host:
Right. And, and so many of the stories fall into the more stereotypical approach of epilepsy mm-hmm. where as you were mentioning before, it’s not just a one type of illness. There are multiple forms, there are multiple ranges of effectiveness.
Jennifer Hook:
People tend to think when they think of epilepsy and seizures, they think of somebody like falling down on the ground and their full body shaking. And that is one of the types, and I mean many, many types of epilepsy, um, caused that. But then there’s also a thing called absence. Seizures where a person might just kind of sit and zone out and you don’t even know they are technically having a seizure. Um, but from your perspective, they’re just sort of staring off in a space and then, um, it can cause other issues like memory loss and people, you know, they don’t have the freedom and autonomy cuz they can’t even, they’re not allowed to drive because the doctor says, well, you might have a seizure while you’re driving, so you can’t have a license.
Cinevo Host:
Right, right. So it’s a, yeah, definitely a story that needs to be told. I know we have writers, financiers, producers inside of our listening audience. So if this is a story that you would like to get engaged with, you can reach out to Jennifer. Jenniferhook.com is her, uh, DP website. You can check out more of her work there. Uh, again, birdie showing on pure flicks the faith and positivity platform. You can get a free trial, you can check out turnover on Amazon Prime. You can check out this as yet undisclosed, uh, amazing pathological documentary in the not too distant future because principal is still being completed. So maybe aiming for late 2023 for a release on, on some platform there.
Jennifer Hook:
I would say either late 2023 or sometime 2024.
Cinevo Host:
You can continue following the Practical Magic Studio for, for more information on that. Uh, Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been a, a great segment. I think there’s gonna be, uh, some listening audience that really values hearing about your experience. Anything else, uh, to mention, especially with regards to being out in the field in these extreme environments, whether it be about, you know, your role as, as a crew leader or, or dealing with gear and equipment or anything at all that you think our, uh, listeners would value hearing?
Jennifer Hook:
Um, I mean, being out there in the field, it was really challenging and we had really difficult days, but obviously it’s also super rewarding. I sometimes say that if when I’m, when I’m filming something and I, I’m looking at my little screen and I, the red line is around it, so I know it’s recording and I’m capturing whatever it is that’s on that screen. Um, and it looks really good. Like I’m getting these beautiful flares or, you know, it’s, I don’t even know, it’s just, it looks beautiful. It’s like a drug. Like it feels so good. And I’m so happy in that moment that I’m capturing that and I’m recording it. Um, and you know, I had such a good team when I was out there too.
Cinevo Host: And you met Lindsay Jackson.
Jennifer Hook: She was, um, one of my camera operators and having her support was incredible. Um, we also had my second unit dp, Justin Morrison, and we had, uh, Gray Morrison who was another camera operator, Dominic, Sherry, and, um, Jacob who was doing the audio. Um, so it was really, really good small, tiny team for what we were doing. But, um, but we got really close and I, and I think we, uh, I think we shot something really beautiful.
Cinevo Host:
Awesome. Well, I cannot wait to see the finished product. Uh, I’m sure it’ll be both really entertaining and really educational. So Jennifer, thank you again for taking the time to join us. To our listeners, thank you so much for hearing us out. This has been the Cinevo Podcast. We will see you next time.